I remember when I first started at the firm, we had a junior partner talk to us, and he said that realistically, even when things are busy, you should be able to get home and get a reasonable amount of sleep, and that's pretty much true. So, on average, that's billing five 9 hour days and a few hours on the weekend. Thanks! Big law firms, or firms that employ at least 50 lawyers (and may employ hundreds or even thousands of lawyers), tend to be particular about which lawyers they hire. I feel like I see a lot of people at my firm just snap and take the first thing that presents itself? I went into a field of law that was a spinoff of my original practice (tax, went into estate planning/tax planning) and it's been great. Corporate lawyers will definitely have a tougher time. 8. If they're not, I'd probably start looking elsewhere sooner rather than later. For current and former Law School Redditors. In reflecting on my days in BigLaw, I wondered if others felt the same. Other professions have pretty high burnout too, but law seems to be up there with medicine as far as burning out people. The list goes on. Your practice group has a big impact on your schedule. All associates are paid along a standard Biglaw salary scale based on seniority. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Knowing that I would have a nest egg if things turned upside down makes the job much less stressful, and I actually think I am a better lawyer as a result. Most often, I just don't manage my time well enough; if I get up ~7am, get cracking ASAP (again, quarantine helps), and stay somewhat productive through the day, I come out fine on sleep. Some groups have a lot of variance day to day while others are pretty steady and even. Candidly, my husband and I outsource a lot, but we do so in a very targeted way. Is it possible to get 7-8 hours a night of sleep? Archived. I'm former medium/big law and it sucked. On paper, it's a good field for fire people, especially if you don't have loans. Reddit gives you the best of the internet in one place. On a normal day I will probably work from 9am - 7pm. I aggressively paid debt off for the first couple years and am now stashing away at least 50% of what hits my bank account each month (i.e., post-401(k) and HSA deductions). I get to the office 8:30-9:00 and leave 6:30-7:00...generally make it to the gym 8:30-9:30 and read for an hour before bed. Our firm gives unlimited billable credit for pro bono work, so I have had some great opportunities outside of my commercial practice. But I came from a midsize boutique firm (still major corporate clients, same billables) that fulfilled *every* negative biglaw stereotype and more, and I can confidently say this is NOT that. I'm curious about other firm's financial benefits - what are ya'll 401k, insurance, etc. I've always been a structured person and stick to a tight schedule in school and its brought me much success. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. At the most intense jobs, there were be a few discretionary hours a day most days. I would, for example. More likely to pay for the expensive condo down the street from the firm. I took a roughly 50% paycut when I left to a small firm but I didn't have billable hours anymore and I worked from 9-4, and never took work home. Hot New Top Rising. 8. Hi! I personally think that a more conservative asset allocation is required for us in the accumulation phase. I had a few that were like a normal weekday. But I bet I know a lot more than most law students … Press J to jump to the feed. Otherwise normal schedules are totally manageable. Big and medium law have an image to maintain. Front loaded income - most associates reach the peak of their earning power within 2-4 years after law school. Labor Day marks the end of summer. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the financialindependence community, Continue browsing in r/financialindependence. I am an incoming first-year associate in a big market. I kept a later schedule because I am not a morning person, and the later schedule made me more productive. Ask questions, seek advice, post outlines, etc. For me, the vast majority of the time, I could sleep 8 hours if I wanted to. I know BigLaw works you hard. My typical day: Get to the office by 9:30-10:00am, work with a 15-30 minute break to grab something to bring back to the desk for lunch. Posted by 8 years ago. I think it's helpful to think about the math. I'm a litigator in NYC. Let’s break it down. All equities, above 50% SR. I’ve game-ified the process a bit, and have to remind myself to spend X% of a bonus for fun. Cookies help us deliver our Services. I had plenty of weekends with nothing that had to be done. There is often very little warning between when your workload changes from somewhat busy to all-consuming. Is it possible to get 7-8 hours a night of sleep? My schedule isn't exactly structured, but I've been able to carve out time for working out, food, spending time with friends/family, etc. Subscribe and get breaking news, commentary, and opinions on law firms, lawyers, law schools, lawsuits, judges, and more. There's a lot of negativity surrounding the practice of law but I also know countless people that truly enjoy it. I've also taken the sage advice of building an emergency fund that's housed at Ally. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. First-year Associate getting like no work. 3L 8 months ago. You would think that leads to better planning for that inevitability, but it often doesn't. Same here. I was only there a few years (VHCOL). This is a reasonable response. Of course, there are fire drills and 10:30 pm emails that cannot wait until tomorrow morning but that is not an everyday thing. I’ve been wondering if that’s a practice area I would enjoy. It's definitely not for a lot of people though. To connect your comment with another above about regional differences, I'll note that 2400 is very high for many markets outside of NYC. That’s the gist I’ve gotten when I’ve asked biglaw people about time management. Hoping to not have to work for money ever again after my 8th year. I don't pretend to know a ton about BIGLAW, being just a first-year. Associates at white shoe law firms are good at a lot of things, but they are especially great at complaining (eloquently and often). For a non NYC perspective, I worked for 2 V100 firms in different markets before going in-house. I have very little to no stress, spend time with my husband and 2 little kids, I go to the gym at lunch, take off for long weekends and vacation several times a year. Esq. Above The Law In your inbox. That generally means no weekend trips away from your laptop/cell service, emailing "Will do, thanks" while on dates, very risky getting drunk enough that you can't work, etc. Close. It definitely gets (a little bit) easier as you become more senior, though. Where are you at in your path to FIRE? This is a place for people who are or want to become Financially Independent (FI), which means not having to work for money. I get 4-5 hours on those nights. Press J to jump to the feed. Posted by 1 day ago. I'm former biglaw, now FI. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Fellow midlevel Biglaw associate here, also on the FIRE track. 38. Good thing is we buckled down over the last year and knocked out the student loans. 1. Log In Sign Up. I'll stay for at least a few more years until I burnout myself or get fired. This is a reasonable response. I took it for what it was. Relax for an hour or two before bed. The Justice Association of Law, Rightness and Goodness is a pedohunting server where we deal with cases and only 18+ people can join because we need decoys and the age of consent plays a big roll . People have tried. Posted by just now. Lunch can basically be free all summer while summer associates are in town (I know I . The main issue is always having to be responsive and ready to put whatever you're doing down for work. I was hoping we could share experiences and commiserate. I've been very lucky with my FIRE progress so far. It will take us longer to fire this way, but we aren’t miserable while working toward our goal. But is working in BigLaw all it’s cracked up to be? They'll phrase it as "oh, everyone had to do it because of COVID." I chose a lower ranked school for the scholarship instead of a higher ranked school and graduated with no debt. Other times I trade sleep to play video games or read after working late. At its core, FI/RE is about maximizing your savings rate (through less spending and/or higher income) to achieve FI and have the freedom to RE as fast as possible. Close. Student loans do come into play to some degree. Many top law school graduates refuse to recognize that their credentials do not automatically equate to financial success, and start living like they are partners from Day 1. Report Save. The result being *everyone* works late to meet the deadlines, partners included (again, in my experience). If you do have loans I strongly urge you to refinance and keep the big expenses (rent and transportation) as low as possible. Biglaw has no official definition but loosely refers to the nation’s largest law firms by headcount, smaller firms that pay at the market rate or medium-sized firms with international reach. My husband is from there but loathes traffic. But those circumstances should be both uncommon and temporary. card. Also max out all of your tax advantaged accounts - chances are you’ll be in a lower tax bracket in retirement. Generally, yes. Most weekends I probably billed 3-4 hours a day (meaning I worked 4-5 hours). So overall, pretty happy with that! I'm only a first year with a very modest amount of money saved up (what JL Collins would call F.U. Or is structure impossible and schedules erratic? I'm also in tax, although I'm thinking about transitioning out to something else. Tons of CLEs also where you can get free lunch. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. It was worth every penny. With litigation, if you have constant fire drills, the cause is much more likely to be either that something went wrong and work needs to be redone, or that the partner/senior associate isn't properly managing the case. Rising. Your burn rate on convenience items will be higher. Fellow midlevel Big Law associate here as well (long time lurker but created an account to join the community). My wife is, or I guess was, just quite. I've talked to other juniors and they seem to be too lazy/strangely resistant to saving money. And of course, if a case comes up or something urgent happens, you will have to prioritize those and they might eat into your sleeping hours. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. We had our start date pushed back to January of this year, and there … Press J to jump to the feed. You can spend those with people, recreating, or sleeping. Corporate/transactional people will not sleep when there are last minute deals that need to get done, say, over a holiday weekend. Junior Big Law associate checking in! Lawyer, but not biglaw here with a few scattered thoughts. With Corporate, it seems that you're much more likely to have a constant stream of stuff that needs to get done ASAP, which leads to partners expecting constant availability. card classic compact. 17 ways to stay out of trouble. User account menu. No way to get around that. As others have said, the most brutal schedules are in NYC, and neither of my positions were in NYC. So it's interesting to see you comparing your BigLaw experience favorably against a midsize boutique. Was it a very deliberate transition for her, or did she basically have a bad day and then say "screw it"? Milbank, Tweed, Hadley & McCloy announced in June that it was increasing its pay rate, setting the bar for its first-year associates at $190,000. Edit: another thing I can think of: a lot of biglaw associates seem to "self medicate" with expensive stuff because of their stress. That’s the gist I’ve gotten when I’ve asked biglaw people about time management. The trendy thing right now seems to be to not segregate x months of expenses for emergencies, but I personally don't know if I can stomach that, given our industry. I was there to fill quotas, I'm sure. I don't mind being in a VHCOL area (San Francisco) since I'd choose to live here anyway. It all starts with making the call. I generally am able to get 7-8 hours of sleep a night, unless it's the week or so before a major closing. If you have big closings/multiple closings on the horizon you'll have late nights and early mornings. Would you agree that going to a smaller firm doesn't necessarily mean less work than BigLaw (generally speaking)? How to Talk to a Lawyer on the Phone: Advice for Rising 2Ls Trying to Land a Summer Associate Offer. As a young female, I knew right away I wasn't ever going to make partner. Associates in the NY office are not expected to go to the office immediately, but are expected to work from a quiet location from at least 8:45 am to 7:00 pm during orientation. Are the hours worth the money? Lose the addiction to comparing yourself to others once you leave law school. No bonds, all equities, which I don't view as too aggressive for someone in their early thirties. Apple could sue both opencore.computer for Eula issues, and opencore for making the Eula issues possible, Apple would win that case causing us all the switch back to Clover as it would become illegal for the devs to provide updates to opencore. More likely to pay for food delivery. And for good reason: there's plenty to complain about! The latest shift in the industry occurred in the middle of 2016. Can I ask how long you were in Biglaw for? The first is that BigLaw associates work in a high-stakes, exciting world where their decisions have multimillion-dollar consequences for their corporate clients. r/ biglaw. Most Biglaw firms are located in the major U.S. cities. What Not To Do As A Summer Associate . This is complicated by the fact that for most, your time in biglaw has an expiration date. I think that many would consider even what you are describing abusive. but they allow for mega backdoor Roth and provide both HSA and limited FSA, as well as some other incidental benefits like fitness reimbursement and pre-tax commuter spending. She's 33 and was making 205k and quit for a 90k state job, with hopes of eventually getting a general counsel position in-house. Other big law firms followed suit so that most now meet that pay while the rest follow pretty tightly under that figure. DM me if interested. I'm making more money now than a partner at that old firm, if my sources are correct, and I work roughly 9/930 to 330/4pm. My firm doesn't match any contributions (which I think is standard?) 7th year associate here, in mediumlaw (350 attorneys). A lot of the suck from Biglaw is that you will work until 11:30 p.m. on those days, take an Uber home and go straight to bed, and then after a week of that, you work all weekend too. 10. Financial Independence is closely related to the concept of Early Retirement/Retiring Early (RE) - quitting your job/career and pursuing other activities with your time. But for me, this was actually a huge driver behind my FI goal. The biggest gripe I hear relates to the billable requirements. Married to another mediumlawyer (250 at his firm). So on a good day I can still get my 7 hours of sleep but on a bad day it could be as little as 3-4. This is NOT a forum for legal advice. Weekends were variable. Lawyers should do that more often. A family friend will be graduating from law school this spring and starting his career at a large law firm next fall.
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